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lemaster
Do I need to have the draft re-run?
March 03, 2016 at 06:09PM View BBCode
Frankly, I hate the freakin' system we use now. If we need a re-run, let me know now so that I can contact admin.
fentuzler47
[Edited on 3-4-2016 by fentuzler47]
March 04, 2016 at 01:44PM View BBCode
Loss penalties don't prevent tanking, they just create a contest to see who can get closest to the limit without going over, ala The Price Is Right. You want to prevent tanking? Set strict rules about the quality of players allowed/not allowed on a Major League roster. Problem solved.[Edited on 3-4-2016 by fentuzler47]
jjmarsh17
the loss penalty at least prevents a full out tank job where you know you can lose 130 games a year to guarantee 1st pick. at least with the loss penalty it takes a little finesse and you can't just field a team of C players.
the only real way to prevent tanking is a non weighted lottery or the wheel system that has been floated in the NBA. I've heard there is a league that instituted the wheel, wonder how it is doing.
March 04, 2016 at 03:58PM View BBCode
there is some truth to that. but your solution is way too hard to enforce given the constraints of the game/site, or if it is possible it is way too labor intensive for the commish (IMO). i know I wouldn't have the time or desire to do it.the loss penalty at least prevents a full out tank job where you know you can lose 130 games a year to guarantee 1st pick. at least with the loss penalty it takes a little finesse and you can't just field a team of C players.
the only real way to prevent tanking is a non weighted lottery or the wheel system that has been floated in the NBA. I've heard there is a league that instituted the wheel, wonder how it is doing.
swope81
I agree, way to hard to enforce something like that. While it looks great on paper, in theory it'd be damn near impossible to police.
March 04, 2016 at 07:33PM View BBCode
Originally posted by jjmarsh17
there is some truth to that. but your solution is way too hard to enforce given the constraints of the game/site, or if it is possible it is way too labor intensive for the commish (IMO). i know I wouldn't have the time or desire to do it.
the loss penalty at least prevents a full out tank job where you know you can lose 130 games a year to guarantee 1st pick. at least with the loss penalty it takes a little finesse and you can't just field a team of C players.
the only real way to prevent tanking is a non weighted lottery or the wheel system that has been floated in the NBA. I've heard there is a league that instituted the wheel, wonder how it is doing.
I agree, way to hard to enforce something like that. While it looks great on paper, in theory it'd be damn near impossible to police.
lemaster
Too late to re-run
March 04, 2016 at 07:53PM View BBCode
I'll post the draft order as soon as I can in the future. I asked two other owners for help on this past draft and we all had the draft slightly different, so that would seem to suggest the current setup is a bit complicated.
FrosteeTBear
March 04, 2016 at 11:12PM View BBCode
If I wouldn't have had any draft penalty I would have drafted #1 instead of SF? :puzzled:
FrosteeTBear
March 04, 2016 at 11:22PM View BBCode
Run The lottery-you don't have this problem plus anyone in loss penalty drops 5 spots in draft and that's enough to keep you out of 110 losses because that is all your picks and it HURTS! :o
swope81
March 05, 2016 at 07:31PM View BBCode
Frostee, what spot did you draft in and where should you have per league rules?
FrosteeTBear
1. San Francisco drafts 1st because my 0ne game penalty and the two game penalty teams cannot draft 1st.
2.Pittsburgh--Frostee who would have drafted 1st cannot draft 1st because he has a 1 game penalty then drafts 2nd.
3.San Diego who would have picked 1st drafts 3rd because of his 2 game penalty
4.Detroit who would have drafted 2nd had a 2 game penalty so he drafted 4th
5.Boston then picks 5th and I think he thinks he should pick 2nd but that actually would give me a 2 game penalty and San Diego and Detroit both 3 game penalties.
So that is the way I see it Swope but you have had a lot more experience with this so what is your expert take on the problem?
March 06, 2016 at 05:22AM View BBCode
I drafted 2nd and that is what I should have drafted but everyone says that I didn't have a penalty by drafting 2nd......my position is that since Detroit and San Diego had a 2 game penalty and I had a 1 game penalty therefore:1. San Francisco drafts 1st because my 0ne game penalty and the two game penalty teams cannot draft 1st.
2.Pittsburgh--Frostee who would have drafted 1st cannot draft 1st because he has a 1 game penalty then drafts 2nd.
3.San Diego who would have picked 1st drafts 3rd because of his 2 game penalty
4.Detroit who would have drafted 2nd had a 2 game penalty so he drafted 4th
5.Boston then picks 5th and I think he thinks he should pick 2nd but that actually would give me a 2 game penalty and San Diego and Detroit both 3 game penalties.
So that is the way I see it Swope but you have had a lot more experience with this so what is your expert take on the problem?
swope81
March 06, 2016 at 06:36AM View BBCode
I really don't know, I'm not sure what the rules are exactly. It gives me a headache.
richrita825
March 06, 2016 at 03:23PM View BBCode
So change it to make it easier...most of us seem like we would be open to an improvement
Horseradish
The reality of it is that it's owners like me that don't make the cut that make it difficult for LEM.....but on the other hand I can honestly say I tried every trick in the book....to try and win more games this past season.....and my guys just weren't good enough nor were there any players available at prices that didn't make losing the better option.....there are absolutely no B+ Overall position players available on the waiver wire and the pitchers waiver wire is full of guys no better or worse than what I have.....and then to top it all off guys get fing pissed because an owner won't trade a quality player because there trying to avoid a damm penalty....that's why I hate the rule I see no reason to go backwards with what I am building simply to satisfy the idea that someone else thinks I should win a certain number of games.... the logic just drives me nuts....especially when 98% of all owners who would be accused of tanking are simply trading away assets to try and rebuild with new assets....pisses me off:mad:!!!!..... but then that's the world we live in penalize everyone with useless rules for the sins of a few.....excellent!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-6-2016 by Horseradish]
March 06, 2016 at 06:21PM View BBCode
Originally posted by richrita825
So change it to make it easier...most of us seem like we would be open to an improvement
The reality of it is that it's owners like me that don't make the cut that make it difficult for LEM.....but on the other hand I can honestly say I tried every trick in the book....to try and win more games this past season.....and my guys just weren't good enough nor were there any players available at prices that didn't make losing the better option.....there are absolutely no B+ Overall position players available on the waiver wire and the pitchers waiver wire is full of guys no better or worse than what I have.....and then to top it all off guys get fing pissed because an owner won't trade a quality player because there trying to avoid a damm penalty....that's why I hate the rule I see no reason to go backwards with what I am building simply to satisfy the idea that someone else thinks I should win a certain number of games.... the logic just drives me nuts....especially when 98% of all owners who would be accused of tanking are simply trading away assets to try and rebuild with new assets....pisses me off:mad:!!!!..... but then that's the world we live in penalize everyone with useless rules for the sins of a few.....excellent!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-6-2016 by Horseradish]
lemaster
I can only do my best to interpret the rules
March 06, 2016 at 06:58PM View BBCode
As the rules now stand, I'll do my best to interpret them. If you can't live with that, well then you can't.
Horseradish
As it stands for me, Lemmer......you are more than just fine.....you are the best!!! Keep doing what you're doing.....I sincerely apologize for contributing to the problem.....as a commish I honestly feel your burn.....Thanks for all you do!!
Horseradish Detroit
March 06, 2016 at 07:03PM View BBCode
Originally posted by lemaster
As the rules now stand, I'll do my best to interpret them. If you can't live with that, well then you can't.
As it stands for me, Lemmer......you are more than just fine.....you are the best!!! Keep doing what you're doing.....I sincerely apologize for contributing to the problem.....as a commish I honestly feel your burn.....Thanks for all you do!!
Horseradish Detroit
FrosteeTBear
[Edited on 3-6-2016 by FrosteeTBear]
March 06, 2016 at 09:18PM View BBCode
Originally posted by HorseradishIt is hard when you can't make it--nobody wants a penalty and yet you have to advance your youngsters so you have a better team--the only thing(well maybe a couple of others) I don't like about Sim D--getting rid of your players because it benefits the building of your younger players and encourages tanking.
Originally posted by richrita825
So change it to make it easier...most of us seem like we would be open to an improvement
The reality of it is that it's owners like me that don't make the cut that make it difficult for LEM.....but on the other hand I can honestly say I tried every trick in the book....to try and win more games this past season.....and my guys just weren't good enough nor were there any players available at prices that didn't make losing the better option.....there are absolutely no B+ Overall position players available on the waiver wire and the pitchers waiver wire is full of guys no better or worse than what I have.....and then to top it all off guys get fing pissed because an owner won't trade a quality player because there trying to avoid a damm penalty....that's why I hate the rule I see no reason to go backwards with what I am building simply to satisfy the idea that someone else thinks I should win a certain number of games.... the logic just drives me nuts....especially when 98% of all owners who would be accused of tanking are simply trading away assets to try and rebuild with new assets....pisses me off:mad:!!!!..... but then that's the world we live in penalize everyone with useless rules for the sins of a few.....excellent!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-6-2016 by Horseradish]
[Edited on 3-6-2016 by FrosteeTBear]
swope81
Frostee ain't mad at cha
March 07, 2016 at 02:19AM View BBCode
Originally posted by lemaster
As the rules now stand, I'll do my best to interpret them. If you can't live with that, well then you can't.
Frostee ain't mad at cha
FrosteeTBear
mad about anything except maybe Donald Trump
but we won't go there, huh? :o
March 07, 2016 at 02:57AM View BBCode
No Swope that was Horse Daddy--but no I am notmad about anything except maybe Donald Trump
but we won't go there, huh? :o
cymbaliner
My take on all this is:
* anti-tankers are people who don't understand the incentives as they're currently laid out, in this league or elsewhere
* getting upset at people for following the incentives that have been laid out for them by others is a fool's game. everyone follows incentives in their own life, and behaves accordingly, but we sometimes lose sight of this when judging others' behavior
* there's no reward for losing. no team is losing on purpose except for the chance to get better. and the best way to get better is through high draft picks.
* "tanking" has some negative association but I'm not sure how else teams are expected to rebuild if not through high draft picks, and the only way you get high draft picks is by having a crappy record
* it's a marathon, not a sprint. many of the owners in this league have been playing SimD for 100s of seasons. If I suck for 5 years but that enables me to contend for 5-10 years, I'll make that trade every time
* It's not anti-competitive to tank and rebuild. You're trying to compete like everyone else - you're just trying to compete 3-5 seasons from now and not today. If you have no hope of winning this year then why would you not try to make yourself better for next year?
I'd prefer a draft position determined strictly by reverse record. The primary (only?) reason I quit as commish of MSL is because determining the draft order took more time than I cared to invest.
Also, the draft penalty creates these weird situations described well by Horseradish earlier in this thread - rebuilding teams are penalized in their rebuild by being forced to keep talent on their roster that they could otherwise move for youth / picks that would enable them to get better faster. The league is already split into half contenders and half rebuilders. At least 3 teams each in the AL and NL are not attempting to compete. Today split into 6-10 teams contending and 6-10 teams rebuilding. There's normally 3-4 teams that win 100+ games and then 3-4 teams that win 65 games or less. If we got rid of the draft penalty, I don't see that changing. I think it would just enable rebuilding teams to rebuild faster.
[Edited on 3-7-2016 by cymbaliner]
March 07, 2016 at 04:21PM View BBCode
I think this plays into a general aversion to "tanking" that's not confined to SimD. Lots of talk about this right now in MLB as half or more of the NL seems to be "tanking" in order to secure higher draft picks.My take on all this is:
* anti-tankers are people who don't understand the incentives as they're currently laid out, in this league or elsewhere
* getting upset at people for following the incentives that have been laid out for them by others is a fool's game. everyone follows incentives in their own life, and behaves accordingly, but we sometimes lose sight of this when judging others' behavior
* there's no reward for losing. no team is losing on purpose except for the chance to get better. and the best way to get better is through high draft picks.
* "tanking" has some negative association but I'm not sure how else teams are expected to rebuild if not through high draft picks, and the only way you get high draft picks is by having a crappy record
* it's a marathon, not a sprint. many of the owners in this league have been playing SimD for 100s of seasons. If I suck for 5 years but that enables me to contend for 5-10 years, I'll make that trade every time
* It's not anti-competitive to tank and rebuild. You're trying to compete like everyone else - you're just trying to compete 3-5 seasons from now and not today. If you have no hope of winning this year then why would you not try to make yourself better for next year?
I'd prefer a draft position determined strictly by reverse record. The primary (only?) reason I quit as commish of MSL is because determining the draft order took more time than I cared to invest.
Also, the draft penalty creates these weird situations described well by Horseradish earlier in this thread - rebuilding teams are penalized in their rebuild by being forced to keep talent on their roster that they could otherwise move for youth / picks that would enable them to get better faster. The league is already split into half contenders and half rebuilders. At least 3 teams each in the AL and NL are not attempting to compete. Today split into 6-10 teams contending and 6-10 teams rebuilding. There's normally 3-4 teams that win 100+ games and then 3-4 teams that win 65 games or less. If we got rid of the draft penalty, I don't see that changing. I think it would just enable rebuilding teams to rebuild faster.
[Edited on 3-7-2016 by cymbaliner]
Horseradish
Hold the phone....Big time wrong interpretation my friend......horseman in no way shape or form is upset with the Lemmer! They don't come any better than him and as a commish I understand full well what Lemmer goes through...my discourse if there is any is directed at those who think rules like this actually accomplish anything....as I said in my first post I feel bad for Lem because I put him in that situation.....and in no way shape or form do I like seeing that happen to him, he deserves better.....I'll say it again......Lemmer has always been good people.....and in my book always will be!!.....and that's for the record!!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-7-2016 by Horseradish]
March 07, 2016 at 10:15PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FrosteeTBear
No Swope that was Horse Daddy--but no I am not
mad about anything except maybe Donald Trump
but we won't go there, huh? :o
Hold the phone....Big time wrong interpretation my friend......horseman in no way shape or form is upset with the Lemmer! They don't come any better than him and as a commish I understand full well what Lemmer goes through...my discourse if there is any is directed at those who think rules like this actually accomplish anything....as I said in my first post I feel bad for Lem because I put him in that situation.....and in no way shape or form do I like seeing that happen to him, he deserves better.....I'll say it again......Lemmer has always been good people.....and in my book always will be!!.....and that's for the record!!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-7-2016 by Horseradish]
swope81
Amen Horse.
March 07, 2016 at 11:20PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Horseradish
Originally posted by FrosteeTBear
No Swope that was Horse Daddy--but no I am not
mad about anything except maybe Donald Trump
but we won't go there, huh? :o
Hold the phone....Big time wrong interpretation my friend......horseman in no way shape or form is upset with the Lemmer! They don't come any better than him and as a commish I understand full well what Lemmer goes through...my discourse if there is any is directed at those who think rules like this actually accomplish anything....as I said in my first post I feel bad for Lem because I put him in that situation.....and in no way shape or form do I like seeing that happen to him, he deserves better.....I'll say it again......Lemmer has always been good people.....and in my book always will be!!.....and that's for the record!!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-7-2016 by Horseradish]
Amen Horse.
FrosteeTBear
March 07, 2016 at 11:56PM View BBCode
Originally posted by HorseradishSorry Horse wasn't trying to put you in hot seat, just saying I was just explaining why we do what we do and you had mentioned being mad about the way we are trying to rebuild and get penalized for it.
Originally posted by FrosteeTBear
No Swope that was Horse Daddy--but no I am not
mad about anything except maybe Donald Trump
but we won't go there, huh? :o
Hold the phone....Big time wrong interpretation my friend......horseman in no way shape or form is upset with the Lemmer! They don't come any better than him and as a commish I understand full well what Lemmer goes through...my discourse if there is any is directed at those who think rules like this actually accomplish anything....as I said in my first post I feel bad for Lem because I put him in that situation.....and in no way shape or form do I like seeing that happen to him, he deserves better.....I'll say it again......Lemmer has always been good people.....and in my book always will be!!.....and that's for the record!!!
Horseradish Detroit
[Edited on 3-7-2016 by Horseradish]
FrosteeTBear
he has been at the top or around the top
for some 30 years now--that is the type of
managing I want to learn!:puzzled::spin:
March 08, 2016 at 12:00AM View BBCode
Some of you know Simba from the TWLhe has been at the top or around the top
for some 30 years now--that is the type of
managing I want to learn!:puzzled::spin:
richrita825
March 08, 2016 at 12:52AM View BBCode
Was Horse referring to me in his original rant? He used my quote. Do you think I hate tankers? I could care less. Its your money, do what you want. I was just trying to make the commish feel better. If he wants to change the system to make it easier for him to figure out the draft order thats fine with me. I didnt join this league because of the so called "anti tank" rule.Pages: 1 2