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don4593
I don't know what the record is, but you're on pace for a solid 17-145 season. I hope you don't choke, as your moniker suggests. I know you can do it. You just need to believe!
Milwaukee Tanks, back in action
March 06, 2015 at 10:27PM View BBCode
Was wondering when we were going to see the D+ control pitchers and the C+ SS with D+ range. Your fans, if you have any left, must really enjoy the comedic performances put on display every night.:lol:I don't know what the record is, but you're on pace for a solid 17-145 season. I hope you don't choke, as your moniker suggests. I know you can do it. You just need to believe!
ahmlton
March 07, 2015 at 12:12AM View BBCode
I thought I had a year or two left with the top pick. Guess I underestimated Milwaukee. Impressive losin streak going on.
don4593
The tank is strong with this one
March 07, 2015 at 12:59AM View BBCode
Originally posted by ahmlton
I thought I had a year or two left with the top pick. Guess I underestimated Milwaukee. Impressive losin streak going on.
The tank is strong with this one
ryang
[Edited on 3-8-2015 by ryang]
March 08, 2015 at 04:17AM View BBCode
Just saw the league leader in games pitched is a C overall from florida.[Edited on 3-8-2015 by ryang]
ryang
March 08, 2015 at 01:28PM View BBCode
Oh and while we are at it, anyone see Boston's team lately?
nuzzy62
March 09, 2015 at 12:51AM View BBCode
We've already voted that guys can put the crappiest team on the field as possible. Someone should have the testes to go all out for the 0-162 season with nothing but c or less players on it. :D :D :D
dtv
March 09, 2015 at 01:22AM View BBCode
How long ago was that vote? I don't see anything in the league rules about tanking being legal.
ahmlton
March 09, 2015 at 01:39AM View BBCode
It's not really tanking though. If you are smart or at least you subscribe to that type of managerial style, you trade away ALL assets the moment you become a non playoff team. If you do it right then you get tons of picks in return. There will be a few seasons of horrific play because you have absolutely nobody of value on your team. It's not purposely losing, it's building a team through the draft. Nothing wrong with it. My humble opinion.
dtv
Tanking that consists of intentionally starting backup catchers at shortstop, stealing with slow players etc etc isn't the only type of tanking. Picking up and starting terrible veterans rather than better players on the waiver wire is tanking. If you aren't playing prospects and aren't playing the best available veterans or the best players on your team, than you are tanking under the rules. I will say this league has the best waiver wire of any I've ever seen so it wouldn't surprise if that is going on.
The rules are the rules. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it but tanking can piss owners off and it can get ugly with teams trying to out-tank each other. At some point, some owner or owners may make a stink about it. If we aren't going to enforce the rules, there probably should be a vote and it should be made explicit in the rules that tanking is acceptable. Maybe there was a vote before I joined and it can just be added to the league rules page.
But a new owner may join and expect the site rules to be followed. Unless there is a formal override to the anti-tanking rules, it can create a very toxic situation. Its a long winded way of saying there should be a rule on the league rules page stating tanking is allowed if thats what the owners want.
March 09, 2015 at 02:05AM View BBCode
Yeah, you can lose 100 games for a couple years and be playing in good faith. I don't think anyone doubts that.This isn't something I'm paying attention to and I'm not looking at rosters and boxscores to see if anyone doing it in this league, but it can become an issue. Personally, i'm too busy right now to pay attention to any teams other than my own and haven't been doing a great of that even. But tanking exists and it can rip apart leagues. I've seen it happen and I like this format too much to want to see it happen here.Tanking that consists of intentionally starting backup catchers at shortstop, stealing with slow players etc etc isn't the only type of tanking. Picking up and starting terrible veterans rather than better players on the waiver wire is tanking. If you aren't playing prospects and aren't playing the best available veterans or the best players on your team, than you are tanking under the rules. I will say this league has the best waiver wire of any I've ever seen so it wouldn't surprise if that is going on.
The rules are the rules. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it but tanking can piss owners off and it can get ugly with teams trying to out-tank each other. At some point, some owner or owners may make a stink about it. If we aren't going to enforce the rules, there probably should be a vote and it should be made explicit in the rules that tanking is acceptable. Maybe there was a vote before I joined and it can just be added to the league rules page.
But a new owner may join and expect the site rules to be followed. Unless there is a formal override to the anti-tanking rules, it can create a very toxic situation. Its a long winded way of saying there should be a rule on the league rules page stating tanking is allowed if thats what the owners want.
nuzzy62
But the league basically voted not to do anything about it, mainly because its unenforceable.
Both Cleveland and I will trade away every asset we have to finish near the bottom (which by the way also helps drive down trade value - supply and demand).
Other tried and true tanking methods I've seen here:
Pull starters in the first inning;
Maximum steal settings;
Use players out of position;
Use 'C' Players;
All pitchers have C+ or less control;
Reverse order quality players in the batting lineup;
Bullpen with only four relievers and D- endurance;
All batters with B or less speed.
---
I didn't think the waiver wire here is that good, especially compared to the TWL. You will see A- guys on the wire, every once in a while but I think that's more out of frustration in trying to trade him and no one wanting him. I tried trading jack Hunter for a playoff second and third and was turned down four times, then tried trading him four four playoff thirds and was still turned down. I'll probably put him on the wire next season as I have two guys in the minors who are better than him.
March 09, 2015 at 02:50AM View BBCode
We took a vote about 20 or so seasons ago, Rich or Buzzz might have more details as to exactly when.But the league basically voted not to do anything about it, mainly because its unenforceable.
Both Cleveland and I will trade away every asset we have to finish near the bottom (which by the way also helps drive down trade value - supply and demand).
Other tried and true tanking methods I've seen here:
Pull starters in the first inning;
Maximum steal settings;
Use players out of position;
Use 'C' Players;
All pitchers have C+ or less control;
Reverse order quality players in the batting lineup;
Bullpen with only four relievers and D- endurance;
All batters with B or less speed.
---
I didn't think the waiver wire here is that good, especially compared to the TWL. You will see A- guys on the wire, every once in a while but I think that's more out of frustration in trying to trade him and no one wanting him. I tried trading jack Hunter for a playoff second and third and was turned down four times, then tried trading him four four playoff thirds and was still turned down. I'll probably put him on the wire next season as I have two guys in the minors who are better than him.
Buzzz
March 09, 2015 at 03:15AM View BBCode
http://www.simdynasty.com/oldforum-viewthread.jsp?tid=396296
dtv
March 09, 2015 at 03:26AM View BBCode
I guess I don't equate the absence of a loss penalty with an endorsement of anything goes tanking. Seems like two different things to me.
nuzzy62
:D
They are, but some owners have been more open about tanking since then. The vote was a carte blanche to tank away, for some.
Personally, it makes it easier to stay on top for a longer period of time and a shorter recovery time to return to the top.
March 09, 2015 at 03:53AM View BBCode
Originally posted by dtv
I guess I don't equate the absence of a loss penalty with an endorsement of anything goes tanking. Seems like two different things to me.
:D
They are, but some owners have been more open about tanking since then. The vote was a carte blanche to tank away, for some.
Personally, it makes it easier to stay on top for a longer period of time and a shorter recovery time to return to the top.
ryang
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by ryang]
March 09, 2015 at 09:52AM View BBCode
I'm obviously in the beginning seasons of rebuilding. I have NO good players on my team through no fault of my own. However, I get called out for two players specifically. One is a #5 starter, the other has played in about half of my games this year. Then I go look and the owner who calls me out has a worse player than my two pitch in almost every game. Then I look again aand see that another owner has SIX C or C+ players playing regularly. I don't mind being called out, but if you are going to do so, don't single me out while you and other teams are just as guilty doing the same thing.[Edited on 3-9-2015 by ryang]
ryang
March 09, 2015 at 09:55AM View BBCode
Also I'm on pace for 30-something wins. Definitely not the worst in league history.
don4593
If I recall correctly, I was vehemently against the tanking that was taking place but I ultimately voted against it because I didn't like the solutions. I think we were too limited in the scope. We have owners now wanting out of this league. I understand the concept trading assets for picks and riding it out with what you have. Milwaukee has demonstrated a different kind of tanking the last time he went through his rebuilding process, like playing a backup C catcher at SS. The degree of his tanking is not as substantial as last time, but it's still quiet obvious.
If I can garner some interest, I'd like to have another vote on a solution. We need something that will work for everyone. The least common denominator sort of solution
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by don4593]
March 09, 2015 at 10:44AM View BBCode
Originally posted by nuzzy62
We took a vote about 20 or so seasons ago, Rich or Buzzz might have more details as to exactly when.
But the league basically voted not to do anything about it, mainly because its unenforceable.
If I recall correctly, I was vehemently against the tanking that was taking place but I ultimately voted against it because I didn't like the solutions. I think we were too limited in the scope. We have owners now wanting out of this league. I understand the concept trading assets for picks and riding it out with what you have. Milwaukee has demonstrated a different kind of tanking the last time he went through his rebuilding process, like playing a backup C catcher at SS. The degree of his tanking is not as substantial as last time, but it's still quiet obvious.
If I can garner some interest, I'd like to have another vote on a solution. We need something that will work for everyone. The least common denominator sort of solution
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by don4593]
ryang
I'm not going to drop my TWO players who play a marginal # of games (well, marginal compared to 100 games) while OTHER TEAMS including the owner of the team that called me out stop doing the same thing on a equal or worse scale.
I swear on anything that I DO NOT change my TEAM settings (pitchers, stealing, etc...) EVER. When I'm winning, losing, or in between, my team settings, subs, etc... stay the same.
And if you have players you can trade, trade them. I traded my guys for cheap because I wanted to get SOMETHING rather than NOTHING. My guys in the minors are still a year or two or three off, so next year I guarantee I'm going to win 30-something games again.
Cleveland won 30 games as recently as 2191...where were the complaints then?
I also like how my posts were skipped over. Nothing to see here, only happens in Milwaukee, move on, let's get Milwaukee's posts sandwiched in the middle so nobody pays attention to anyone else....
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by ryang]
March 09, 2015 at 11:55AM View BBCode
So if I remember correctly, I played those players for something like 20 games and then to please the dissenters quickly rid of those players and put in B and B+ players because that's all that my team had and/or was on the wire. My record during those 20 or so games was not much worse than what my team did the rest of the season. As soon as other owners had an issue, I made it right at Rich's request. I also bought a REALLY crappy team, so it's not like I had options.I'm not going to drop my TWO players who play a marginal # of games (well, marginal compared to 100 games) while OTHER TEAMS including the owner of the team that called me out stop doing the same thing on a equal or worse scale.
I swear on anything that I DO NOT change my TEAM settings (pitchers, stealing, etc...) EVER. When I'm winning, losing, or in between, my team settings, subs, etc... stay the same.
And if you have players you can trade, trade them. I traded my guys for cheap because I wanted to get SOMETHING rather than NOTHING. My guys in the minors are still a year or two or three off, so next year I guarantee I'm going to win 30-something games again.
Cleveland won 30 games as recently as 2191...where were the complaints then?
I also like how my posts were skipped over. Nothing to see here, only happens in Milwaukee, move on, let's get Milwaukee's posts sandwiched in the middle so nobody pays attention to anyone else....
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by ryang]
nuzzy62
March 09, 2015 at 01:27PM View BBCode
There is actually probably three teams that might seem suspicious, depending on people's interpretations.
ryang
In my lineup, all my veteran hitters are B+. I have 1 B hitter, but because of his power he's my BEST hitter. The rest of my hitters are young players who will turn into useful major leaguers except for the guy I got batting against lefties. Nobody is playing out of position.
In my rotation, all my starters are B+ or better except for one who I'm trying to maybe get to red letter control. What do I do, drop one B+ starter for a waiver wire B+ starter? In my bullpen I have two B+ guys, one B- guy who I am hoping will hit three or four years of good control improves, and then a B veteran and the B- guy with D+ control. I have moved the D+ control guy to long relief B so he is my last option. Want me to swap the B guy for a waiver wire B+ guy? That'll improve my team what...a game, based off the B+ performances from my starters. You want me to promote my 20 year old C+/B- minor leaguers?
Please, tell me, what else would you like me to do? Drop the C+ guy from hitting against lefties for a sucky B or B+ hitter? What will that do, improve my team 2 or 3 games? How about someone pay my monthly bill and manage the team for me?
I'm at 27 wins right now. This shouldn't even be an issue for my team when you have other teams with red letter players sitting on the pine. I have NO red letter players. B+ is as good as it will get for the foreseeable future.
I don't want anyone to leave the league, and I will defend my team. I'm purposely sucky because I traded what I had when those players were still valuable and all my remaining players retired within a year or two of each other. I'm not going to apologize for winning, and I won't apologize for trying to build for the next round of winning.
And yes, the passion is strong with this one.
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by ryang]
March 09, 2015 at 02:56PM View BBCode
I admit, my team sucks right now. But please tell me my alternatives?In my lineup, all my veteran hitters are B+. I have 1 B hitter, but because of his power he's my BEST hitter. The rest of my hitters are young players who will turn into useful major leaguers except for the guy I got batting against lefties. Nobody is playing out of position.
In my rotation, all my starters are B+ or better except for one who I'm trying to maybe get to red letter control. What do I do, drop one B+ starter for a waiver wire B+ starter? In my bullpen I have two B+ guys, one B- guy who I am hoping will hit three or four years of good control improves, and then a B veteran and the B- guy with D+ control. I have moved the D+ control guy to long relief B so he is my last option. Want me to swap the B guy for a waiver wire B+ guy? That'll improve my team what...a game, based off the B+ performances from my starters. You want me to promote my 20 year old C+/B- minor leaguers?
Please, tell me, what else would you like me to do? Drop the C+ guy from hitting against lefties for a sucky B or B+ hitter? What will that do, improve my team 2 or 3 games? How about someone pay my monthly bill and manage the team for me?
I'm at 27 wins right now. This shouldn't even be an issue for my team when you have other teams with red letter players sitting on the pine. I have NO red letter players. B+ is as good as it will get for the foreseeable future.
I don't want anyone to leave the league, and I will defend my team. I'm purposely sucky because I traded what I had when those players were still valuable and all my remaining players retired within a year or two of each other. I'm not going to apologize for winning, and I won't apologize for trying to build for the next round of winning.
And yes, the passion is strong with this one.
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by ryang]
ryang
9/18/2198
The Florida Flamingos have promoted Tony Snow to the major league team. The Florida Flamingos have waived Richie Robinson.
Now I know how Bundy feels for being singled out all the time.
March 09, 2015 at 03:14PM View BBCode
And quietly the C overall guy from Florida is now on the waiver wire...9/18/2198
The Florida Flamingos have promoted Tony Snow to the major league team. The Florida Flamingos have waived Richie Robinson.
Now I know how Bundy feels for being singled out all the time.
don4593
You don't have to tell me why your line was the way it was.
All I care about now is remedying this problem.
Can someone walk me through how draft lotteries work?
I am open to all suggestions. I like something like the NBA where essentially all non-playoff teams are in the lottery. How could we make that work?
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by don4593]
March 09, 2015 at 03:36PM View BBCode
I had several retirees on my pitching staff and I got too lazy to sign guys off the waiver wire as I only had two pitchers on my minors.You don't have to tell me why your line was the way it was.
All I care about now is remedying this problem.
Can someone walk me through how draft lotteries work?
I am open to all suggestions. I like something like the NBA where essentially all non-playoff teams are in the lottery. How could we make that work?
[Edited on 3-9-2015 by don4593]
ryang
My team currently has 27 wins, 3 less than Cleveland 10 years ago.
Since I've joined this league, this issue has come up in both MY rebuilds. The finger is pointed at ME. Why? Why not Cleveland? Why not Boston? Why not anyone else who has had 30 wins before? Why not anyone else who is fielding SIX C players regularly?
I don't think it's fair to call me out, then provide no suggestion as to what I should do. If you replace crap players with crap players, guess what you're gonna get?
March 09, 2015 at 04:02PM View BBCode
Don...with all due respect, you called me out. I provided valid responses as to why my team was set the way it was and I've made adjustments to appease the league.My team currently has 27 wins, 3 less than Cleveland 10 years ago.
Since I've joined this league, this issue has come up in both MY rebuilds. The finger is pointed at ME. Why? Why not Cleveland? Why not Boston? Why not anyone else who has had 30 wins before? Why not anyone else who is fielding SIX C players regularly?
I don't think it's fair to call me out, then provide no suggestion as to what I should do. If you replace crap players with crap players, guess what you're gonna get?
don4593
There is a fine line between rebuilding and utterly going all-out for the first pick. There is nothing against do that, but I believe what you did the first time around really sullies my opinion of your team. When I see C+ guys with D+ arm playing SS and your 1st starter with D+ control, it was clear you were headed down the same path.
I wish I still had the screen shot of your team last time. You had terrible catchers who couldn't hit or filed playing SS and 3B among the other egregious maneuvers.
It is one thing to trade away your talent and plug in Waiver Wire guys, it's another thing to pick up the worst waiver guys and star them.
I have no problem with what you're doing this season. I wanted to bring it to light because I thought it was funny and hoping that other owners would take a stand to make a change.
March 09, 2015 at 05:31PM View BBCode
Ryang,There is a fine line between rebuilding and utterly going all-out for the first pick. There is nothing against do that, but I believe what you did the first time around really sullies my opinion of your team. When I see C+ guys with D+ arm playing SS and your 1st starter with D+ control, it was clear you were headed down the same path.
I wish I still had the screen shot of your team last time. You had terrible catchers who couldn't hit or filed playing SS and 3B among the other egregious maneuvers.
It is one thing to trade away your talent and plug in Waiver Wire guys, it's another thing to pick up the worst waiver guys and star them.
I have no problem with what you're doing this season. I wanted to bring it to light because I thought it was funny and hoping that other owners would take a stand to make a change.
ryang
The first time around I went nuts because I never had an issue doing that in any other league. Rich messaged me and said to scale it back, so I put everything back in place within 20 games...which is super quick turnaround considering we play 36GPD.
This time around, I played the C+ guy and I had the D+ control guy at #1. When you made your first post, I moved the C+ guy out against righties and the D+ control guy to the pen, and eventually my last option. Then I noticed you and Boston doing what you're railing against which is what is setting off my fuse. One case a much larger scale, the other smaller but just as frequent.
I will more than likely have the top pick for many years to come because there are very few players on the horizon that will make an impact in the majors. If owners are going to get in a tizzy for me playing the majority of players B- through B+ for the next 6 or 7 seasons, you better act fast. Although, I don't know how you can prevent me from doing so due to my lack of depth.
March 09, 2015 at 05:59PM View BBCode
Don...you were doing the exact same thing with the C overall guy as a #5 starter, except he was pitching virtually every game all season out of the pen.The first time around I went nuts because I never had an issue doing that in any other league. Rich messaged me and said to scale it back, so I put everything back in place within 20 games...which is super quick turnaround considering we play 36GPD.
This time around, I played the C+ guy and I had the D+ control guy at #1. When you made your first post, I moved the C+ guy out against righties and the D+ control guy to the pen, and eventually my last option. Then I noticed you and Boston doing what you're railing against which is what is setting off my fuse. One case a much larger scale, the other smaller but just as frequent.
I will more than likely have the top pick for many years to come because there are very few players on the horizon that will make an impact in the majors. If owners are going to get in a tizzy for me playing the majority of players B- through B+ for the next 6 or 7 seasons, you better act fast. Although, I don't know how you can prevent me from doing so due to my lack of depth.
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