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FuriousGiorge
Cleveland people - the LeBron flap
October 05, 2007 at 06:26PM View BBCode
Tyson? Anyone else? What do you think about this whole situation?
FuriousGiorge
Normally, I think this stuff is kind of silly. There are a lot of reasons why an athlete who happens to be playing in a certain city wouldn't root for another team in that same city. Donovan McNabb was at the Cubs/Dbacks game - he's from Chicago, so I assume he's a Cubs fan. But there are some mitigating circumstances here. First, LeBron was born, raised, and plays in Cleveland Indians territory. He has no connection to New York. Second, the Indians, his hometown team, was playing a playoff series against the team that he's a "fan" of. Third, he showed up at the f-ing game with a hat of the opposing team - it's not bad enough that he's a fan of the other team, but he's actively rooting against the team that plays in his hometown. Fourth, of all the teams he could pick, he picks the Yankees, the hateableist team on the planet. And don't give me the "the Yankees were good when LeBron was growing up" defense - the Indians won pennants when he was 10 and 12, in a town that was going baseball crazy, key years for developing sports connections. Spin this any way you want, but what he did was supremely dickish.
October 05, 2007 at 06:41PM View BBCode
My opinion, for what it's worth:Normally, I think this stuff is kind of silly. There are a lot of reasons why an athlete who happens to be playing in a certain city wouldn't root for another team in that same city. Donovan McNabb was at the Cubs/Dbacks game - he's from Chicago, so I assume he's a Cubs fan. But there are some mitigating circumstances here. First, LeBron was born, raised, and plays in Cleveland Indians territory. He has no connection to New York. Second, the Indians, his hometown team, was playing a playoff series against the team that he's a "fan" of. Third, he showed up at the f-ing game with a hat of the opposing team - it's not bad enough that he's a fan of the other team, but he's actively rooting against the team that plays in his hometown. Fourth, of all the teams he could pick, he picks the Yankees, the hateableist team on the planet. And don't give me the "the Yankees were good when LeBron was growing up" defense - the Indians won pennants when he was 10 and 12, in a town that was going baseball crazy, key years for developing sports connections. Spin this any way you want, but what he did was supremely dickish.
turkob
are there sound bites of him saying he's a yankees fan? or did he just wear the hat? there were a million red sox hats in madison but i doubt even a quarter of them actually root for the red sox
October 05, 2007 at 06:47PM View BBCode
my guess is that he doesn't particularly care about baseball and wore the yankees hat cuz he thought it was cool, clearly it was dumb but he probably didn't think aboutare there sound bites of him saying he's a yankees fan? or did he just wear the hat? there were a million red sox hats in madison but i doubt even a quarter of them actually root for the red sox
FuriousGiorge
"LeBron James announced to millions during his recent appearance on "Saturday Night Live" his intention to root against his hometown Indians this week in the American League Division Series." Accompanying the article is a picture of him smiling and holding up his Yankees hat (which was at least of the blue variety, and not a red or green or whatever other godawful varieties they make it in these days).
Here's a quote from LeBron: "I know a lot of people might not like hearing me say that, but I think everyone knows I've been a Yankee fan my whole life"
[url=http://blog.cleveland.com/top_entertainment/2007/10/lebron_james_for_cavs_star_its.html]This article[/url] basically calls him the world's biggest front-runner.
October 05, 2007 at 07:46PM View BBCode
This is the first paragraph of an MLB.com article about it:"LeBron James announced to millions during his recent appearance on "Saturday Night Live" his intention to root against his hometown Indians this week in the American League Division Series." Accompanying the article is a picture of him smiling and holding up his Yankees hat (which was at least of the blue variety, and not a red or green or whatever other godawful varieties they make it in these days).
Here's a quote from LeBron: "I know a lot of people might not like hearing me say that, but I think everyone knows I've been a Yankee fan my whole life"
[url=http://blog.cleveland.com/top_entertainment/2007/10/lebron_james_for_cavs_star_its.html]This article[/url] basically calls him the world's biggest front-runner.
turkob
you can be a frontrunner as long as you're not the face of the city
October 05, 2007 at 08:12PM View BBCode
ok, he's an idiotyou can be a frontrunner as long as you're not the face of the city
FuriousGiorge
October 05, 2007 at 08:28PM View BBCode
Well, you'd still be a douchebag, just not The Douchebag That Is Supposed To Be The Face Of An Entire Professional Sports League.
Bones2484
October 05, 2007 at 09:02PM View BBCode
They talked to him during the game last night... the interviewer even took a jab at Lebron for being a bandwagon fan and rooting for the Yankees and Cowboys - two teams that he has no connection to.
Hamilton2
October 05, 2007 at 09:35PM View BBCode
He's a Cowboys fan too! Are you serious? This is completely classless, tasteless, heartless. Cleveland has treated LeBron like a king, who does he think he is anyway?
sycophantman
October 05, 2007 at 11:44PM View BBCode
This is a bad move on LeBrons part. He always seemed to have a great innate sense in how to market himself before, I'm surprised he would be so tone-deaf on this one.
mr1313
October 06, 2007 at 12:04AM View BBCode
I come from Boston, and I'm a Dolphins fan, and hate the Patriots, if I was a pro athlete in the city I came from, and I disliked for instance the Pats, and they were playing the Dolphins, I would support the team I grew up following. This is just more pissing and moaning about what pro athlete's do off the court, who cares who their favorite baseball team is, athletes are mostly assholes anyhow, why do we need proof of it. 1313
rkinslow19
Stick to basketball lebron.
October 07, 2007 at 06:53PM View BBCode
If he is truly a Yankees fan, then you have to give him credit for not jumping on the Indians bandwagon. Which is ironic, because any Yankees fan that's not from NY is a bandwagoner.Stick to basketball lebron.
thatrogue
A-Rod gets dogged out for being Mr. Politically Correct on every issue (an allusion to people believing he does not say what he really feels, but what he thinks the public will like, or at least find least offensive). Now LeBron gets dogged out for being a fan of someone other than the Browns or Indians??? What is this slavish devotion to hometown teams anyway? It's a free (supposedly) country...have a mind of your own and root for the team you really like. Last I heard, LeBron gets paid to PLAY for the Cavaliers and do things to promote that franchise. Anyone who would stop coming to Cavs games and/or boo LeBron or the team while watching them play basketball is the real idiot...not LeBron.
October 08, 2007 at 12:37PM View BBCode
People need to grow up and get a life. Any person is free to root for whatever team they personally like.A-Rod gets dogged out for being Mr. Politically Correct on every issue (an allusion to people believing he does not say what he really feels, but what he thinks the public will like, or at least find least offensive). Now LeBron gets dogged out for being a fan of someone other than the Browns or Indians??? What is this slavish devotion to hometown teams anyway? It's a free (supposedly) country...have a mind of your own and root for the team you really like. Last I heard, LeBron gets paid to PLAY for the Cavaliers and do things to promote that franchise. Anyone who would stop coming to Cavs games and/or boo LeBron or the team while watching them play basketball is the real idiot...not LeBron.
barterer2002
Here's the problem as I see it. There are two kinds of sports fans. Those who root for their home town team and those who root for whoever is good at the time. Those with roots established in a city, especially generational roots, are more likely to be home town fans. They are the core of the teams fans, the ones that go to the game, the ones who watch on tv etc. There is a perception, because they are there through the good and bad years that they are the true fans of the franchise.
The frontrunners are usually perceived as being less invested in the franchise since there appears to be a likelihood that they will abandon the team when it stops winning. There is also a good chance that they don't attend games, see them on television, discuss them ad nausem on talk radio or read about them in the paper. They aren't invested, merely wanting to be associated with a good team.
This is not meant to imply that fans who do not live in the city are not necessarily invested in the team they root for. When I lived in Kansas City or Little Rock or Washington DC I retained my alliegence to my childhood favorites and I'm sure that guys who are deep sports fans who have scattered loyalties such as rogue or 1313 retain their loyalties as well. Again, its the perception of one type of fan vs. another.
The LaBron case is particularly relevant. When Allen Iverson played for the Sixers he frequently wore a Yankees cap. Its different from LaBron for two major reason. Iverson was hired to come play in Philadelphia he wasn't from this region. LaBron has lived in Ohio forever and grew up in a region that many fans would expect him to root for the Indians. They might forgive the Reds or the Pirates but they're also somewhat local for him there. The Yankees however are a team that LaBron roots for simply because they've been winning. Are there any doubts that he would not be a Yankee fan had his formative sports years stretched from 1983-1992?
Couple this with the fact that the Yankees are playing the Indians in the field and he's become the face of Cleveland sports, its one thing for him to go and root for the Yankees but to wear a Yankees cap will slap once again at the second tier status that cities such as Cleveland face.
October 08, 2007 at 01:13PM View BBCode
How is A-Rod relevant in the discussion.Here's the problem as I see it. There are two kinds of sports fans. Those who root for their home town team and those who root for whoever is good at the time. Those with roots established in a city, especially generational roots, are more likely to be home town fans. They are the core of the teams fans, the ones that go to the game, the ones who watch on tv etc. There is a perception, because they are there through the good and bad years that they are the true fans of the franchise.
The frontrunners are usually perceived as being less invested in the franchise since there appears to be a likelihood that they will abandon the team when it stops winning. There is also a good chance that they don't attend games, see them on television, discuss them ad nausem on talk radio or read about them in the paper. They aren't invested, merely wanting to be associated with a good team.
This is not meant to imply that fans who do not live in the city are not necessarily invested in the team they root for. When I lived in Kansas City or Little Rock or Washington DC I retained my alliegence to my childhood favorites and I'm sure that guys who are deep sports fans who have scattered loyalties such as rogue or 1313 retain their loyalties as well. Again, its the perception of one type of fan vs. another.
The LaBron case is particularly relevant. When Allen Iverson played for the Sixers he frequently wore a Yankees cap. Its different from LaBron for two major reason. Iverson was hired to come play in Philadelphia he wasn't from this region. LaBron has lived in Ohio forever and grew up in a region that many fans would expect him to root for the Indians. They might forgive the Reds or the Pirates but they're also somewhat local for him there. The Yankees however are a team that LaBron roots for simply because they've been winning. Are there any doubts that he would not be a Yankee fan had his formative sports years stretched from 1983-1992?
Couple this with the fact that the Yankees are playing the Indians in the field and he's become the face of Cleveland sports, its one thing for him to go and root for the Yankees but to wear a Yankees cap will slap once again at the second tier status that cities such as Cleveland face.
Admin
I actually find it kind of refreshing. He's always been a Yankees fan. Most other athlete's publicist or agents would have probably forced him to pretend to be an Indians fan in the interest of good PR.
I subscribe to the theory that you should root for your home town teams across the board, unless you have a good reason not to. But the counter argument to that goes something like, why should geography factor into who you root for?
Tyson
October 08, 2007 at 02:02PM View BBCode
He's been routing for the Yankees for years. It's not a new story to us.I actually find it kind of refreshing. He's always been a Yankees fan. Most other athlete's publicist or agents would have probably forced him to pretend to be an Indians fan in the interest of good PR.
I subscribe to the theory that you should root for your home town teams across the board, unless you have a good reason not to. But the counter argument to that goes something like, why should geography factor into who you root for?
Tyson
FuriousGiorge
October 08, 2007 at 02:23PM View BBCode
LeBron can root for whatever teams he wants, but being a frontrunner in every sport like he is is incredibly douchebaggy. And don't give me that "free country" nonsense - no one's suggesting that he go to jail for being a douchebag (although if I had my way......). This is about character and judgment, as in, it shows a lack of character to be a gigantic frontrunner, and it shows a lack of judgment to show up to a playoff game in your hometown wearing the colors of the opposing team, especially if that team is the Yankees.
thatrogue
I'm a sports fan. I tend to really like my local teams, but other factors have always impacted my initial decision about which team I have liked best in any particular sport. So if LeBron decision about whom he liked best was made sometime during his teenage years, so be it. I actively root against the Cowboys every chance I get...but my dad has always rooted for them as he really liked Tom Landry. If LeBron similarly grew to like them during the Emmitt/Troy/Irvin years, then so be it. And, if as a teenager, LeBron began to enjoy the Yankees of Jeter/Bernie/Paulie & Pettite, who were always really easy to like, then why be upset?
Local loyalties are great, until they devolve into mindless groupthink that anyone from an area NOT rooting for a local team is a traitor, or sell-out, or whatever. Wearing the Yankees hat to the Indians game may not be wise (I don't own any Broncos team stuff...but if I did, I probably would not have worn it during the times I've gone to see them vs. the Raiders at the Colossium...though I have worn Mets caps to playoff games vs. the Braves at Turner field), but hey...that's his favorite team. In a place with rational fans, it should have created a fun sort of cheering rivalry with LeBron...but of course rational and fan rarely go together.
Root for whom you like...and let other people do the same unless, of course, they do something stupid like root for the Red Sox, Celtics or Patriots when they grew up outside of New England. Now that should deserve ridicule! ;)
October 08, 2007 at 03:26PM View BBCode
But when you are young, a team winning can have an incredible effect upon you. Yes my dad was from Florida, which made me like their college football teams...however, their Orange Bowl victory over Nebraska in an emotionally intense game was soo impactful, that it had to have an effect on me. So much so that I've rooted for them even through all of the embarrassing behavior years (which occur all too often down in South Florida). And though Spurrier was brash and could be obnoxious, I have a continued fondness for the Gators, and have gotten to see them win two NCs, though I took a HUGE heaping of abuse when Nebraska absolutely pummeled them in '94. I'm a fan of the Big East in college basketball, but root for Georgetown over teams closer to where I grew up (St. Johns and Syracuse). Their performance in the mid-to-late eighties probably has something to do with that...even though the NY teams were also successful back then. I root for the Denver Broncos over the Giants and Jets, despite their four losses in their first four Super Bowl trips, and was rewarded when they finally won behind TD and John. I suffered through many disappointing years rooting for the Mets, and will be a longtime fan unless they stupidly fire Randolph (I have disdain for so many Mets fans and the NY media nonsense). And despite the rivalry that most NY fans feel, I tend to like to see the Yankees do well, even though I strongly prefer the Mets, whom I follow daily, by far.I'm a sports fan. I tend to really like my local teams, but other factors have always impacted my initial decision about which team I have liked best in any particular sport. So if LeBron decision about whom he liked best was made sometime during his teenage years, so be it. I actively root against the Cowboys every chance I get...but my dad has always rooted for them as he really liked Tom Landry. If LeBron similarly grew to like them during the Emmitt/Troy/Irvin years, then so be it. And, if as a teenager, LeBron began to enjoy the Yankees of Jeter/Bernie/Paulie & Pettite, who were always really easy to like, then why be upset?
Local loyalties are great, until they devolve into mindless groupthink that anyone from an area NOT rooting for a local team is a traitor, or sell-out, or whatever. Wearing the Yankees hat to the Indians game may not be wise (I don't own any Broncos team stuff...but if I did, I probably would not have worn it during the times I've gone to see them vs. the Raiders at the Colossium...though I have worn Mets caps to playoff games vs. the Braves at Turner field), but hey...that's his favorite team. In a place with rational fans, it should have created a fun sort of cheering rivalry with LeBron...but of course rational and fan rarely go together.
Root for whom you like...and let other people do the same unless, of course, they do something stupid like root for the Red Sox, Celtics or Patriots when they grew up outside of New England. Now that should deserve ridicule! ;)
FuriousGiorge
Second, and more importantly, this isn't about who you root for, or I root for, or anyone else. This is about LeBron, a person whose livelihood depends on people, especially in his city, dedicating themselves to following his team through the good times and bad. And he's asking people to show him that sort of dedication, while acknowledging that he is incapable of doing so - not only incapable, but willing to actively root against those teams that his fans care about, simply because they aren't good enough to meet LeBron's standards. He could be a quiet Yankees or Cowboys fan - he'd still be a frontrunner, but no one would have brought up the issue. But when he shows up at the park to actively root against his hometown team, that's a slap in the face to the people who he is asking to treat him and his team differently than he would have, given the same circumstances. If the Cavs go on a long losing streak, or miss the playoffs, or just never get any better, will Cleveland fans stop caring? And if they do, will LeBron acknowledge that he would (and did) do the same thing, or will he complain that he isn't getting the support he needs? My guess is LeBron won't be in Cleveland long enough to find out anyway, but either way I think you've seen a weaselly side to him that is going to color his public persona.
October 08, 2007 at 04:22PM View BBCode
First of all, it seems stupid to think that LeBron "roots" for anyone - he picks a winner after the fact and decides that's his favorite. If you had a friend who did that, you'd think a little less of him, wouldn't you? If one of the knocks on athletes is that they have a difficult time with the virtue of humility, then this is a prime example of how that manifests itself.Second, and more importantly, this isn't about who you root for, or I root for, or anyone else. This is about LeBron, a person whose livelihood depends on people, especially in his city, dedicating themselves to following his team through the good times and bad. And he's asking people to show him that sort of dedication, while acknowledging that he is incapable of doing so - not only incapable, but willing to actively root against those teams that his fans care about, simply because they aren't good enough to meet LeBron's standards. He could be a quiet Yankees or Cowboys fan - he'd still be a frontrunner, but no one would have brought up the issue. But when he shows up at the park to actively root against his hometown team, that's a slap in the face to the people who he is asking to treat him and his team differently than he would have, given the same circumstances. If the Cavs go on a long losing streak, or miss the playoffs, or just never get any better, will Cleveland fans stop caring? And if they do, will LeBron acknowledge that he would (and did) do the same thing, or will he complain that he isn't getting the support he needs? My guess is LeBron won't be in Cleveland long enough to find out anyway, but either way I think you've seen a weaselly side to him that is going to color his public persona.
DougB
If he relied on being popular in Cleveland this would be stupid, arogant, and just a bit spiteful. But to me he probably doesn't really care what people in Cleveland think. He gets just as much money from people in New York, LA, and Chicago as he does from Cleveland. But if I were a 9 year old kid I'd kind of hate him for it. I mean I gotta say if Brett Favre showed up in Milwaukee wearing a Cardinals hat for a critical game against the Cards in Milwaukee... I'd be thinking... "what an idiot".
October 08, 2007 at 06:17PM View BBCode
Well... on the one hand I think it shows on some level a lack of class and respect for the people who pay him. But on the other hand... that's assuming he's a guy who gets most of his money localy. But he's clearly not a part of Cleveland. He's a global man.If he relied on being popular in Cleveland this would be stupid, arogant, and just a bit spiteful. But to me he probably doesn't really care what people in Cleveland think. He gets just as much money from people in New York, LA, and Chicago as he does from Cleveland. But if I were a 9 year old kid I'd kind of hate him for it. I mean I gotta say if Brett Favre showed up in Milwaukee wearing a Cardinals hat for a critical game against the Cards in Milwaukee... I'd be thinking... "what an idiot".
thatrogue
Secondly, most people are fans of Derek Jeter, Brett Favre, and other players because of two main reasons...they demonstrate a certain level of athletic prowess and determination, and the media hypes them up in a favorable way. How many people claim to be Bill Buckner fans? How many claim to be Scott Norwood fans? People tend to like players who perform at a high level, whether said players are from their hometown or not. Thus it is kind of stupid to bash a person for rooting for a team that performs at a high level (read: wins), just because said team plays its home games in a different geography than said person's home.
LeBron's livelihood actually does not depend on anyone from Cleveland attending any games. If the fans did not show up for any additional games, the Cavs would still owe him the remainder of his contract. And, if the Cavs chose not to resign him when his contract was up, every single NBA team with cap room would be clamoring for his services, no matter what baseball or football team's cap he wore. As I recall, LeBron plays hard on the court, he gives back to the community, and he does not get into legal hot water. If the fans decide they'd rather not have him on their team...well they can go right back to being the pre-LeBron Cavs, and we'll see how well LeBron does in another city.
So he's a Yankees fan...big deal. If Jose Reyes and/or David Wright wore a Patriots cap to a Jets playoff game, I'd certainly question their taste, sanity and judgement...but, once the baseball season began, I'd be right back to cheering them on!
October 08, 2007 at 10:10PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorgeWait...LeBron has said that he has been a longtime Yankees fan. Why should I disbelieve him? Just because he was a gifted athlete as a young man, does that mean that he was not a sports fan?
First of all, it seems stupid to think that LeBron "roots" for anyone - he picks a winner after the fact and decides that's his favorite. If you had a friend who did that, you'd think a little less of him, wouldn't you? If one of the knocks on athletes is that they have a difficult time with the virtue of humility, then this is a prime example of how that manifests itself.
Second, and more importantly, this isn't about who you root for, or I root for, or anyone else. This is about LeBron, a person whose livelihood depends on people, especially in his city, dedicating themselves to following his team through the good times and bad. And he's asking people to show him that sort of dedication, while acknowledging that he is incapable of doing so - not only incapable, but willing to actively root against those teams that his fans care about, simply because they aren't good enough to meet LeBron's standards. He could be a quiet Yankees or Cowboys fan - he'd still be a frontrunner, but no one would have brought up the issue. But when he shows up at the park to actively root against his hometown team, that's a slap in the face to the people who he is asking to treat him and his team differently than he would have, given the same circumstances. If the Cavs go on a long losing streak, or miss the playoffs, or just never get any better, will Cleveland fans stop caring? And if they do, will LeBron acknowledge that he would (and did) do the same thing, or will he complain that he isn't getting the support he needs? My guess is LeBron won't be in Cleveland long enough to find out anyway, but either way I think you've seen a weaselly side to him that is going to color his public persona.
Secondly, most people are fans of Derek Jeter, Brett Favre, and other players because of two main reasons...they demonstrate a certain level of athletic prowess and determination, and the media hypes them up in a favorable way. How many people claim to be Bill Buckner fans? How many claim to be Scott Norwood fans? People tend to like players who perform at a high level, whether said players are from their hometown or not. Thus it is kind of stupid to bash a person for rooting for a team that performs at a high level (read: wins), just because said team plays its home games in a different geography than said person's home.
LeBron's livelihood actually does not depend on anyone from Cleveland attending any games. If the fans did not show up for any additional games, the Cavs would still owe him the remainder of his contract. And, if the Cavs chose not to resign him when his contract was up, every single NBA team with cap room would be clamoring for his services, no matter what baseball or football team's cap he wore. As I recall, LeBron plays hard on the court, he gives back to the community, and he does not get into legal hot water. If the fans decide they'd rather not have him on their team...well they can go right back to being the pre-LeBron Cavs, and we'll see how well LeBron does in another city.
So he's a Yankees fan...big deal. If Jose Reyes and/or David Wright wore a Patriots cap to a Jets playoff game, I'd certainly question their taste, sanity and judgement...but, once the baseball season began, I'd be right back to cheering them on!
sycophantman
Myself, I grew up in the Chicago area and the Houston area, so I have to root for either the Bears/Oilers (now Texans), the Cubs/Astros or the Bulls/Rockets. But if either team is out of the playoffs I'll seek out another team to root for. I don't go in for all this cheer the home team/jeer everyone else nonsense.
Go Indians!
October 08, 2007 at 11:55PM View BBCode
Originally posted by Admin
I subscribe to the theory that you should root for your home town teams across the board, unless you have a good reason not to. But the counter argument to that goes something like, why should geography factor into who you root for?
Tyson
Myself, I grew up in the Chicago area and the Houston area, so I have to root for either the Bears/Oilers (now Texans), the Cubs/Astros or the Bulls/Rockets. But if either team is out of the playoffs I'll seek out another team to root for. I don't go in for all this cheer the home team/jeer everyone else nonsense.
Go Indians!
barterer2002
October 08, 2007 at 11:59PM View BBCode
I have my teams that I root for and a few that I root against (anyone from New York or Boston, Lakers, Ravens, Bengals, Browns, colleges in Florida, Georgetown basketball and the Colorado Avalanch (not sure why) but I'm comfortable watching a game without a rooting interest.
FuriousGiorge
October 09, 2007 at 12:03AM View BBCode
Again, there is a huge, huge difference between rooting for some random, non hometown team and showing up at your hometown team's playoff game wearing the paraphernalia of the visiting team. Especially if you represent that city in another sport. This cannot be stressed enough.
mr1313
October 09, 2007 at 12:05AM View BBCode
This thread is unbelievable, the media has even given up on this topic, this is not a story, fuck. 1313
sycophantman
LeBron showing up to that game in an Indians cap is akin to...
Becoming an atheist and going home for Christmas only to harp on about your new beliefs with your orthodox Christian clan?
October 09, 2007 at 12:07AM View BBCode
Perhaps what this discussion needs is an apt analogy then?LeBron showing up to that game in an Indians cap is akin to...
Becoming an atheist and going home for Christmas only to harp on about your new beliefs with your orthodox Christian clan?
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