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FuriousGiorge
If your favorite sports team plays in a venue that changes its name every 5 minutes, then they are a Mickey Mouse organization. The San Francisco Giants play in one of the most beautiful venues in the world, and it is basically nameless. The owners of sports teams don't give a shit about you as long as you're watching their games and buying their merchandise.
March 26, 2007 at 05:10PM View formatted
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And that is why you can never consider it The Garden.
If your favorite sports team plays in a venue that changes its name every 5 minutes, then they are a Mickey Mouse organization. The San Francisco Giants play in one of the most beautiful venues in the world, and it is basically nameless. The owners of sports teams don't give a shit about you as long as you're watching their games and buying their merchandise.
tm4559
you are so cute when you rage against the machine.
March 26, 2007 at 05:18PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
The owners of sports teams don't give a <b>[Censored]</b> about you as long as you're watching their games and buying their merchandise.
you are so cute when you rage against the machine.
FuriousGiorge
March 26, 2007 at 05:25PM View BBCode
If I've said it once I've said it a million times - it is time for us all to get the man's foot out of our collective asses.
tm4559
it has been in there so long, and buried so deep, our collective breath smells like shoe polish.
March 26, 2007 at 05:37PM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
If I've said it once I've said it a million times - it is time for us all to get the man's foot out of our collective asses.
it has been in there so long, and buried so deep, our collective breath smells like shoe polish.
Vicar
[Edited on 3-28-2007 by Vicar]
March 28, 2007 at 11:36AM View BBCode
It is always interesting to watch the NFL draft and hear the announcers and the KIDS talk about how much they are going to HELP the new team they have been drafted by. After the preseason, look around the league and see how many 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks are on the team and making the difference the ones who got the glory claimed they would make!:puzzled:[Edited on 3-28-2007 by Vicar]
Damien435
Major League Baseball sees more fans every year fill their stadiums than any other professional sports league in the world and the average attendance per game for baseball is third (in the US) behind only NASCAR and NFL, each of which is really only played one day a week so of course they will have higher attendance per game. During the 2006 season, MLB had a higher attendance than the NFL's 2006 season, NBA's 2005-06 season, the NHL's 2005-06 season, the 2006 NASCAR season and the 2006 MLS season, COMBINED. The average attendance at an MLB game was 31,423 in 2006, the NBA's average was 17,558 in 05-06 and the NHL averaged 16,995, NFL Europe had a hire attendance per game than NBA and NHL for crying out loud. Baseball destroys the NBA and NHL on paper and in the hearts and minds of most Americans. There's a reason it is called America's pastime.
If you are going to make such a bold statement as to list baseball as only the third most popular sport in America then you need to list it as follows:
1.) Professional Football (tie)
1.) College Football (tie)
3.) Professional Baseball
Baseball is arguably the most popular sport in America (not third as you seem to believe it is lucky to receive) and another thing that makes baseball so great. Only eight teams make the post-season unlike the NBA and NHL where a majority of the teams (16 out of 30) make the post-season. Personally, I was much more excited when the Twins, who had already clinched the AL Wild Card, won the Central Division in 2006 than when the T-Wolves got the 1 seed during the 2003-04 season, when the T-Wolves beat the Kings in game 7 of that same season, or when the Vikings finished the regular season 15-1 back in 1998. In my own mind the only thing that can rival major league baseball is college football in terms of popularity and devotion. You want to see some sparks fly try putting a Sooner in the same room as a Husker, a Wolverine with a Buckeye or a Yanks fan and a Red Sox fan, the NFL, NBA and NHL don't have any rivalries that can compare to those in baseball and college football, maybe Dallas-Washington for the NFL, maybe.
April 01, 2007 at 03:49AM View BBCode
Originally posted by ironhorse2ko
To be more exact will baseball survive as a sport here in America, and for how long? Forget about steriods, that's bad enough and damaging to the sport and whatever integerity it had (or still has), I'm thinking long term. To the casual fan, Baseball is a distant 3rd to Basketball, and football- it's beginning to be thought of on the level of hockey now here in N.America; nobody gives a crap it seems, only those that actually follow the sport.
Major League Baseball sees more fans every year fill their stadiums than any other professional sports league in the world and the average attendance per game for baseball is third (in the US) behind only NASCAR and NFL, each of which is really only played one day a week so of course they will have higher attendance per game. During the 2006 season, MLB had a higher attendance than the NFL's 2006 season, NBA's 2005-06 season, the NHL's 2005-06 season, the 2006 NASCAR season and the 2006 MLS season, COMBINED. The average attendance at an MLB game was 31,423 in 2006, the NBA's average was 17,558 in 05-06 and the NHL averaged 16,995, NFL Europe had a hire attendance per game than NBA and NHL for crying out loud. Baseball destroys the NBA and NHL on paper and in the hearts and minds of most Americans. There's a reason it is called America's pastime.
If you are going to make such a bold statement as to list baseball as only the third most popular sport in America then you need to list it as follows:
1.) Professional Football (tie)
1.) College Football (tie)
3.) Professional Baseball
Baseball is arguably the most popular sport in America (not third as you seem to believe it is lucky to receive) and another thing that makes baseball so great. Only eight teams make the post-season unlike the NBA and NHL where a majority of the teams (16 out of 30) make the post-season. Personally, I was much more excited when the Twins, who had already clinched the AL Wild Card, won the Central Division in 2006 than when the T-Wolves got the 1 seed during the 2003-04 season, when the T-Wolves beat the Kings in game 7 of that same season, or when the Vikings finished the regular season 15-1 back in 1998. In my own mind the only thing that can rival major league baseball is college football in terms of popularity and devotion. You want to see some sparks fly try putting a Sooner in the same room as a Husker, a Wolverine with a Buckeye or a Yanks fan and a Red Sox fan, the NFL, NBA and NHL don't have any rivalries that can compare to those in baseball and college football, maybe Dallas-Washington for the NFL, maybe.
rkinslow19
It's a draft in name only. In reality, it's an auction, run by Scott Boras.
April 01, 2007 at 06:49PM View BBCode
Lets be honest, baseball is more threatened by the amateur draft than by performance enhancing drugs.It's a draft in name only. In reality, it's an auction, run by Scott Boras.
Damien435
If I actually understood how the draft worked in baseball I would probably agree, near as I can tell the baseball teams get to draft anyone they want (do the players even need to be out of high school yet?) but the players get the option to go to college if they are just out of high school or sign with another team if they don't like the team they were drafted by. Is that more or less how it works?
[Edited on 4-2-2007 by Damien435]
April 01, 2007 at 11:54PM View BBCode
Originally posted by rkinslow19
Lets be honest, baseball is more threatened by the amateur draft than by performance enhancing drugs.
It's a draft in name only. In reality, it's an auction, run by Scott Boras.
If I actually understood how the draft worked in baseball I would probably agree, near as I can tell the baseball teams get to draft anyone they want (do the players even need to be out of high school yet?) but the players get the option to go to college if they are just out of high school or sign with another team if they don't like the team they were drafted by. Is that more or less how it works?
[Edited on 4-2-2007 by Damien435]
Benne
I think this is what kinslow was getting at. I somewhat agree that the draft, at least for the high-profile prospects, is little more than a bidding war with the GMs and agents, but since when has baseball been about anything other than bidding wars? Also, this generally happens in most sports anyway. In football, the hotshot first-rounders can sit out of training camp if they don't like their contract, or they can pull an Eli Manning and pout and threaten to hold their breath until they go to a team they like. So it's not exclusive to baseball.
April 02, 2007 at 09:36AM View BBCode
but the players get the option to go to college if they are just out of high school or sign with another team if they don't like the team they were drafted by. Is that more or less how it works?
I think this is what kinslow was getting at. I somewhat agree that the draft, at least for the high-profile prospects, is little more than a bidding war with the GMs and agents, but since when has baseball been about anything other than bidding wars? Also, this generally happens in most sports anyway. In football, the hotshot first-rounders can sit out of training camp if they don't like their contract, or they can pull an Eli Manning and pout and threaten to hold their breath until they go to a team they like. So it's not exclusive to baseball.
FuriousGiorge
April 02, 2007 at 02:34PM View BBCode
You can't just refuse to sign with the team that drafted you and then sign with someone else. What you can do is sit out a year and then re-enter the draft. The same thing applies in the NFL. This is a very minor problem - think of all the highly-touted, unsignable prospects over the years, and think about how many of them have been productive and how many have flamed out. You think the Twins are sorry they took Joe Mauer instead of Mark Prior? Or that the Phillies are upset that they couldn't sign JD Drew? Drafting in baseball is a very inexact science, and usually teams are better off not wasting a lot of money on guys who haven't proven themselves as a professional. In other words, the draft saves poor (and usually dumb) teams from themselves.
barterer2002
April 02, 2007 at 04:52PM View BBCode
Clearly the more troubling aspect of the draft and the part that needs the most "fixing" is that it only applies to the US player while those from Asia, Latin American and the Caribbean can sign with the highest bidder.
FuriousGiorge
April 02, 2007 at 05:04PM View BBCode
That's where the haves really are able to outpace the have-nots. It's tricky though, because there are a lot of people who are happy with the system the way it is. Japanese players start playing professionally in Japan - you can't very well ask their clubs to forfeit the rights to players who choose to come to America to participate in a draft without being properly compensated. And then you have the same problem - only the richest clubs would draft them anyway, since they'd still have to pay. And in Latin America, teams spend a lot of money to identify and then train players. So throw those players into the draft and either those Academies would dry up (since it doesn't make sense to spend that money if you won't see a direct return on investment) or Major League Baseball would have to take over the job of training and identifying players, probably drawing from a pool of money contributed by all 30 clubs - considering that Major League Baseball still operates as 30 little fiefdoms rather than a cohesive whole like the NFL does, it seems difficult to imagine a scenario where teams are willing to give up their individual rights to Latin American players in order to serve the greater good.
barterer2002
April 02, 2007 at 05:22PM View BBCode
Its not a new struggle. In the teens and twenties there were developmental teams such as the Baltimore Orioles and San Franscisco Seals who would sell top talent to the majors. After the Branch Rickey created minor league system ended that, there would be bidding wars for top young talent creating the "Bonus Baby" rules which said that players signed for more than a certain amount (I think $10K but am not certain) had to be on the major league roster. (see Killebrew, Harmon). Then in the mid sixties the draft did away with that problem creating an equitable method to distribute domestic talent (which accounted for 90% of the players at the time). The inequity now comes in the process which sends domestic players through a draft system while allowing wealthier teams to "corner the market" in certain regions.
rkinslow19
I was getting at the fact that the best draft eligible player is rarely drafted first overall, due to contract demands. See: Weaver, Jared and Drew, Stephen. Premiere players fall to the teams that are willing to pay preimum contracts, while teams that need help the most are often just looking for the least lucrative player to sign. See Bush, Matt.
Not to mention that foreign players (excluding canada) aren't eligible. Which leads to the ridiculous posting system that now plagues Asia.
I'd be in favor of some sort of global draft that includes salary slotting, to help counter the ill effects of capitalism run wild, over expansion, and inept small market management.
April 04, 2007 at 04:38AM View BBCode
Originally posted by Benne
but the players get the option to go to college if they are just out of high school or sign with another team if they don't like the team they were drafted by. Is that more or less how it works?
I think this is what kinslow was getting at. I somewhat agree that the draft, at least for the high-profile prospects, is little more than a bidding war with the GMs and agents, but since when has baseball been about anything other than bidding wars? Also, this generally happens in most sports anyway. In football, the hotshot first-rounders can sit out of training camp if they don't like their contract, or they can pull an Eli Manning and pout and threaten to hold their breath until they go to a team they like. So it's not exclusive to baseball.
I was getting at the fact that the best draft eligible player is rarely drafted first overall, due to contract demands. See: Weaver, Jared and Drew, Stephen. Premiere players fall to the teams that are willing to pay preimum contracts, while teams that need help the most are often just looking for the least lucrative player to sign. See Bush, Matt.
Not to mention that foreign players (excluding canada) aren't eligible. Which leads to the ridiculous posting system that now plagues Asia.
I'd be in favor of some sort of global draft that includes salary slotting, to help counter the ill effects of capitalism run wild, over expansion, and inept small market management.
FuriousGiorge
April 04, 2007 at 05:00AM View BBCode
What the hell is this Commie bullshit, slow? You're getting soft in your dotage.
rkinslow19
I was on board with baseball's super capitalism until it failed to contract teams.
Watching a decade's worth of Devil Rays games will turn you into a commie.
April 05, 2007 at 12:48AM View BBCode
Originally posted by FuriousGiorge
What the hell is this Commie bullshit, slow? You're getting soft in your dotage.
I was on board with baseball's super capitalism until it failed to contract teams.
Watching a decade's worth of Devil Rays games will turn you into a commie.
FuriousGiorge
Baseball could certainly stand to be improved in terms of its economic model, but salary slotting has nothing to do with competitive balance and everything to do with owners wanting to spend less money. And I've never understood why rich teams have to subsidize poor management. Seriously slow, you're a Commie.
April 05, 2007 at 03:24AM View BBCode
Contraction is the dumbest idea anyone in baseball had since the White Sox decided to wear shorts.Baseball could certainly stand to be improved in terms of its economic model, but salary slotting has nothing to do with competitive balance and everything to do with owners wanting to spend less money. And I've never understood why rich teams have to subsidize poor management. Seriously slow, you're a Commie.